The Sony A7s: 1st Look…Testing the limits.

101 Comments

1. OMG!!! I cannot wait for this beast to be released here in Australia.
   I have almost sold all my a77 gear and am ready to buy.
   I have pre ordered my lenses already. Just 2 for now, Fe16-35 f/4 and the Rikonon 24mm 1.4.
   I think they will work fine for me.
   Cannot wait.

2. thanks Steve
   is there any disadvantage to the silent shutter except for FPS ?
   as I only shoot single frame, if not, then I would keep it permanently on silent

   • Flash cannot be used with silent shutter. Silent shutter is great for event shooting!

3. Gnarly!, I think the grain looks really natural in the BW images.
   The last one is sick.

4. I just pre-ordered my A7s today based on posts like this (thanks, Steve!) and Youtube head-to head samples (like against the GH4). In EVERY case, I like what I see. The camera does have limitations like video (not photo) colour banding on subtle gradations of light, but there are ways around this, and no camera is perfect. 80% of my use for this camera will be for video. I own two Canon XA-10’s and two Canon Vixia G10’s, so this is a major step up for me. I’m one of the few people who appreciate the fact that the A7s does NOT have internal 4K recording. As soon as AJA or Atomos develop a reasonably-priced 60 fps, 4:4:4 recorder, I’ll buy it. In the meantime, the Atomos 4K recorder is just fine. Canon will NEVER unlock their 4K sensors on the C100 and C300. Everyone who considers the Sony A7s primarily for video can rest assured that they are buying the best overall camera available for under $20,000.00.

5. Great first look, Steve!

   I wonder what happened to my comment that I wrote last night.. Still waiting a moderation? That’d be sucks since that’s my first time ever broke from the shell to make a comment toward this great website..

   Maybe it was too long and got deleted.. hahaha..

6. The b&w shots at high iso are nice. but let’s be honest here, the real test are those same shots in colour. b&w hides the noise by making it look like grain. Flip side is at least u can get some really cool images in b&w!

   • Huss, the real test is the RAW images, not what some Jpeg engine produces. As you can see in the really high ISO’s, that relatively acceptable grain deforms into nasty artefacts. I’d always be most interested in the improvements at ISO levels you realistically use, probably 6400 max, or maybe 12800. Higher than that is just pub ammo.

7. With all the anticipation of a fantastic low light full frame camera, I am very disappointed with pictures taken above ISO 8000. All that hype for nothing.

   • Personally I could care less about any iso over 3200….but seriously, what is there to be disappointed about with the quality past iso800??? In case you haven’t noticed this is as good as it currently gets…

     • Well, the A7s will cost more than the A7r, and my A7r is great up to ISO 6400, and with the 55mm 1.8 lens, the IQ is very sharp. So, what is the purpose of the A7s, smaller files for quicker downloads?

       • Kenneth I agree with you…I would much rather have an A7R…all I was saying is that there is nothing ‘wrong’ with the performance of the A7S above iso8000. You’re right though…the performance of the A7R is amazing and IMO a much better choice than a A7S.

8. I tried out an A7r the other day and while the new A7s is something I would normally be very interested in, the ergonomics just didn’t work for me. Everything just felt very cramped and the shutter release was in a very uncomfortable position for the way I like to hold a camera. Strangely I liked the feel of the NEX7, too bad Sony relocated the shutter release so much father back on the body.

9. Something that doesn’t seem discussed enough in regards to high ISO usage is the relative performance in terms of reduced Dynamic Range. Grain is one thing, I think I’ve pretty much learned to live with whatever grain the modern crop or FF sensors deliver. It can be worked over usually pretty good in post anyway.

   It’s the “muddy” images you start to see when you’re shooting at ISO 6400 and up that usually makes them unusable and problematic for me. I’m typically fine with a subjective summation of performance in regards to ISO so anything that can be given relative to say a D800, D4s, or 5DM3 in regards to noise performance would be greatly appreciated!

   Thanks Steve!

   • Well… Don’t hold your breath. All the info is out there already.

10. Considering its weight and size, this would be a perfect second camera for who owns rangefinder (or Sony e) lenses.

    • The A7s is aimed at a specific, and relatively small, section of the market and photographers. Given its price, I suggest the A7 would be better for this purpose. Whilst good for a number of purposes, I did notice that the 12 meg resolution was somewhat lacking, even compared to the APS-C 16 megapixel competition.

      Also, given the size of its pixels, having ultra sharp lenses will have no advantage as I suspect the sensor will not be able to resolve them adequately. I’d be interested in learning what others may think about this.

      • You’re probably right Terry, but as this is the next best thing, you’re not. Sorry…

11. The use of Jpeg’s is a real handicap in judging these images. We’re looking at the Jpeg engine much more than the images themselves.

12. Hi Steve, does the A7s cope with wide angle rangefinder lenses?

13. The first photo looks much noisier than I might expect at ISO 6400. Could there be an extra zero missing?

    • No. Exif data indicates 6400.

14. Sony did not come up with this camera for extra low light work. That is not the primary reasons full frame existed. Many Nikon FF sensors in the past were used 99% of the time at low ISOs. I am not impressed wit the high ISO pictures. Yes they can be obtained but this is not the “take it to the drinking bar at night camera.” Too large, too expensive for the bar. I think we need to look at the FF reviews of cameras 5 and 7 years ago.

    • This is in NO WAY too large to take with you anywhere. Not at all. The A7s with a 35 2.8 or even better, a Voigtlander 35 1.4 is a nice size set. Smallest full frame there is. Ive taken my Leica everywhere and it is larger. The camera excels at LOW ISO images, to me, more so than the Nikon Df. I’ll post more samples soon. ISO, for me, is good up to ISO 32,000 or so. After that I would not use it – but 32,000! Not 3200…

15. Pretty good, but I think I’ll stick with my Df

    • Here’s what DxO said: “The new Sony betters the Nikon Df, but it’s a mere +1/6 stop improvement – barely noticeable in real world use. The two are pretty close elsewhere.”

      So, hype aside, that’s the reality of it right there.

      • Did they reference at what ISO it performed that marginally better at?

      • Hmm, it makes the DF seem more attractive then. I’ll take a loss of 1/6 stop in return for the gain of 4 mp as the df has a 16 mp sensor over the Sony’s 12.
        But, I just didnt gel with the df i rented. It was nice but…

16. What’s left to say… Goodbye Olympus, Pana, Fuji… Leica… Nikon, Canon,…? I’ve always said… you may like Sony or not as a camera manufacturer but being the most advanced sensor developer, they hold the key to put things in production others just can’t.

17. Hi!

    This is the camera for me.

    I already went ape over the high ISO performance of my Olympus PEN EP-5. ( OK at 6,400 ASA)

    I ‘ll shoot flowers and insects with the PEN

    Atmosphere in pubs and in cities with this monster

    And serious landscape… Well, i decided not to buy the A7R but to go for film. i’ve just bought a Linhof Technikardan 23 technical camera which I’ll shoot with 6×9 rollfilm and a 47mm lens!!

    Great images, Steve, and thanks very much for this short review.

    BTW, Never found anything wrong with 12MP. I had a 12MP Olympus PEN EP-3 and I blew up the images to 32 inches and had a show with them.

    Hell is a constant barrage of reviews like this.

    Heaven is having the one perfect camera, or a Leica, of course.

    Dirk.

18. the best sony camera yet

19. Terrific shots! It’s a low light monster but how well does it hold to the A7R or the Df sensor in normal ISO?

20. Awesome shots Steve, thanks for posting so quickly. Kind of makes me wish I hadn’t gotten the A7R. That first shot at 102,400 is crazy! I cannot believe how well that holds together, albeit with some grain.Can’t wait to see the full review.

21. Hi Steve, I noticed that most of the high iso’s shots are in B&W, is that because the colour is a bit rough looking at higher iso’s or is that just your preference? Thanks Mike

    • Michael,

      I view on a high quality screen, albeit only at full HD, 1920×1080, and the portrait of Steve’s wife at 80,000 ISO, whilst remarkable in itself, has a lot of nasty chroma noise. I’d be interested in learning if it can be cleaned up. This is what prompted my earlier comment about the high quality of the b/w images and which, of course, hide this.

22. It’s like the Nikon D700 sensor on steroids!

23. I get a lot of ghosting in night photos on my A7, does the A7s sensor do the same thing?

24. Nice. Please test this camera with wide angle lenses to see if it performs better than the other A7 cameras.
    the 24 mp A7 works better than the 36mp A7r, so the A7s may be better than either.

    Best regards
    Huss

25. I want one ….:)

26. The AF has definitely improved, it isn’t just your imagination Steve. In my tests (as an A7 shooter) the A7S ‘just worked’ even in very low light and worked to lower light levels than a6000 let alone A7. As the AF comes off the sensor, the extra sensitivity helps a lot here. I thought the shutter sounded more damped as well, but that one I don’t know whether I just imagined it or not.

27. At high ISO, I think this camera comes closest to providing the look of 35mm film. Yet, at low ISO it provides a medium format look. The best of both worlds? Can’t wait for your final review, Steve.

    • Correction: I meant to say, “At high ISO, I think this *digital* camera comes closest…”

28. Whoah! Whoah! Whoah! Wow!

29. Hey Steve, super great images and a very promising cam. I was always very stisfied with the 12 mp files from my D700. I’m dreaming of a mirrorless with such a sensor since many years since I totally switched to mirrorless. Looking forward to read your full review… Thanks

30. Dear Steve,

    First time commenting, long time lurker ever since your review of the first Fuji x100.
    First of all, I love your website, love the passion you put into these cameras and lenses (bags!). So, I thank you and appreciate your works! I wish I can contribute more toward the affiliation purchases, but alas, I live far away in Indonesia (showing how far your work has spread,huh? hahaha), I can’t help you there. Excuse the English, and since its the first time I’m commenting, this might be a very long one, apology is in order.

    Based on your reviews, I’ve purchased and tasted the following cameras and lenses.
    1. Fuji X100
    2. Sony RX100
    3. Nikon D600 (you didn’t but I thought I should just put it out there anyway)
    4. GX7, with the following lenses; 25mm f 1.4 Leica, 45mm f 1.8, and 35-100mm f 2.8
    5. Sony a7 with 35mm f 2.8

    I pretty much traversed some of the available sensor size cameras and types, and being a hobbist 1st, G.A.S second, and real dedicated photographer third, I still can’t find a place to stay and feel that I belong there. This review is another easy example how G.A.S is attacking me again. Yes, I do realized the usual sentence such as how the photographer is the one who makes the picture, not the camera, etc but it didn’t help me so far.

    I’m in a bit of dilemma here that I am hoping, a bit of people’s words can help shape my mind and options.
    I sold off my MFT gears because I realized, I want to make one of my dream into reality, going to Europe. I decided to save up, and funding myself by, the first step, selling the MFT gears. Before I sold it, I bought a7 and thought I can do some comparison between sensor sizes and see for myself the real difference. Sad to say.. Some of the files I saw, if I were blindfolded, I’d say the high rated one coming from a7. That wasn’t the case. I was using the 35-100mm on the GX7 and 35mm on the a7. A lot of keeper coming from the former. Maybe, yes, it’s not easy to take a good picture with the wider angle because composition wise, you got to master it (or learning while doing), but that made me realize one thing. Lens is critical.

    Sadly, I sold it off already, reason being, Panasonic in Indonesia doesn’t come with local warranty. People prefers Olympus products because they come with the local warranty. Olympus is quite dominating our local market for MFT because of this reason. Also, in here, there’s no refund system, or try/rent before you buy stores/services, so I’d be pretty mad to sell the a7 in just 2 weeks owning it because the price will be down to $2000 from the $2450 that I bought it for.

    Now the problem. While I like my a7, the lenses are still pretty minimum, and I thought a lot about using adapter and mount a canon glass. However, this make me lose semi quicker auto-focus, adding weight, and metabones one, coming at $500 in here! As for the native lenses.. Well.. 24-70mm I was hoping to be the savior, but it wasn’t. Also the price for these A7 lenses are astronomical! No cheap selection at all. Not good for me wanting to save up for Europe.

    I figure I will need 2 lenses for europe. Super wide angle, and one prime for night time. Either that, or walk around lens with constant “f”, and a prime for night time. I just can’t justify paying around $1500 (in here, because of the exchange rate) for the Zeiss Tessar FE 24-70mm f4 knowing that it’s not that special IMO.

    So, I’m thinking to sell my a7, at $2000. Losing $450 for 1 month and 2 weeks for trying out a system, I’ll just have to take it like that, and get either A6000 or a7s.

    Option 1. a7s, I was thinking it’s due to the high ISO capability, allowing me to shot using f2.8 at night (otherwise, I’d doubt it’ll come out good enough). With this option, I will only sell the a7 body, and not the lens at $1300. As for the wide option, I’ll get the tiny sony rx 100 III, or voigtlander 21mm f4.5 Skopar. Overall might cost me around $2700 (estimate price in here)+$900 (voigtlander) – $1300 = $2300 ADDITIONAL

    Option 2. a6000 body only, at $800 in here. Coupled with 10-18mm f4 (that will give me 15-27mm if my math isn’t a failure. Which is very wide and good enough for me!) at $750, and get the continuing lens, 18-105 f4 G lens, at $670. Adding the cheap Sigma that I just found out about (from this website of course!), 60mm f 2.8 ART lens, at $200. This could give me, 15-157mm at f4 for walk around and 90mm for potrait at night.
    Overall will cost me around: $800+$750+650+$200 – $2000 = $400…

    For option 1, Do you think I’m crazy if I’m “downgrading” (sensitive word maybe) to APS-C sensor from FF for capturing moments on the biggest trip in my life?

    I’m just afraid that high ISO pictures that I WILL take at night won’t be as nice as the FF in a7. Afraid that the sony APS-C format will be gone in the future, and they decided to go with full frame mirrorless only. Afraid that the a6000 will feel like a toy, than the a7 (a6000 isn’t made with magnesium alloy is it?). EVF is also my concern since I feel at home with the a7, especially after using the weird shaped one on the GX7. Grip is another concern comparing it to the a7 because I don’t think a6000 even have a battery grip. Last, the operational. I love the twin dials on the a7, and from the pictures, doesn’t seems like the a6000 got it.

    Or maybe, I should be even more crazier by just forget everything about system cameras and go with sony rx100 iii+go pro 3 hahaha (I hope not.. 🙁 )

    Anyway, what do you think Steve, or anyone really, if you care to chime in a little in my dilemma.

    I apologize if this comment has been too long and becoming too personal, I hope I don’t strike a nerve with someone. I don’t mean to pollute this website, just asking for help and opinion publicly in the era of internet .
    Finally,

    Thank you sincerely for at least reading!

    • I’ll chime in Tora. My advice is: stop wearing a circle in your carpet, stop worrying. You have an honestly amazing collection of cameras, but you van use only one at a time.

      Go to Europe, take the camera that you like best with the lens selection you like best, sell off the rest before you go. Full frame equivalent 24, 35, 50, 85, or 28, 50, 85 to make it simpler.

      Stop worrying, start looking!

31. Thanks for commenting on the AF speed in the dark. When Sony claimed this thing could focus down to -4.0 EV I had a feeling there would be a massive improvement in AF speed when the night comes.

    • Followup question: does the improved sensitivity translate to the EVF in the dark – meaning is low light lag and grain improved in the finder?

      • Yes, viewfinder is definitely cleaner in low light, AF is much improved in this area as well. For me it’s hands down the best A7 series camera yet.

32. I’m stupefied.

33. Any chance of getting one of the higher megapixel models in a direct comparison for your full review? I would love to see high ISO comparisons of the 24 mp and 36 mp downsized to 12 megapixel to see how they compare (essentially simulating a same size print comparison).

    • Luminous landscape did a quick comparison with scaled down A7r files.

34. Steve, Can you please, please, please do a little test on long exposure moonlight or equivalent photography? Basically what are the limits of this sensor producing noise free images max 10 sec exposure with this type of photography? From my experience, I believe that cmos sensors behave a little differently at longer exposures. Might have something to do with amp noise? Forgive the question but I am really keen to know and hope you find the time to do a little test. Thank you so much for all the work you do by the way. Love this site.

    • Will be in my review. THanks!

      • Awesomeness!! 🙂

35. How do Leica M mount lenses (wides, especially) fare on the A7s vs the A7r?

36. Whet

37. Wow, very impressive.

38. Looks awesome, and honestly, it’s going to be awesome for what it is!! I’m torn, I shoot 80% of my stuff while walking around at night, 10% in the day, and the other 10% at motorsport events where I usually have to crop a LOT (since I’m quite far away)

    So I guess, I need an a7 and a7r 🙂

    THANKS FOR THE HELP
    Problem solved!

39. Steve,
    Please try this camera with some M lens wider than 35mm.
    Let’s find out if bigger pixels are better in the periphery.
    Thank you!

40. Love Sony’s 36MP, 24MP, 12MP strategy. Something for everyone. Great shots!

41. I’d be interested to see the performance of the A7S’s non-native wide angle lens performance to see if the pixel pitch has reduced any corner hue shifts.

42. Steve, i am thinking about the the Mitakon…..Are you loving this lens and can we expect a full review?

43. The last image is wonderful. I love lens flare.

    The sensor is indeed mouth-watering…

44. The low light performance is indeed very impressive but their is a certain quality or “cleanness” to the photos at base ISO that I have not seen since the introduction of the RX1. The flamingo shot is amazing.

45. Hi Steve! Great camera but how did you use manual focus in dark? Do you think what it really need in real life?

    • I used MF for the Mitakon and tested out MF for a few shots with the 55 but most of it was AF WITHOUT the AF focus aid light.

46. Oh yeah, the silent mode is a good idea. Couldn’t Sony come with a “silent shutter” update for the A7r? If it’s technically possible, we all should apply maximum pressure on Sony to make it happen!!

    • Dirk, it is after all, only an electronic shutter in this mode. Nothing special per se as every point and shoot compact and up market models like Panasonics’ LX7 use the same principle. In fact, as you will know, with this type of camera, one has to set beep levels and shutter sounds to give an aural confirmation that the shutter has actually fired. I’d still like to hear a low level confirmation even in silent shutter mode.

    • Like TerryB, I believe the ‘silent’ shutter on the A7s is merely an electric shutter. What is perhaps unique about the A7s is that an electronic shutter is being marketed on a full-frame camera! Groovy…

      The ability to implement an electronic shutter cleanly is a function of the pixel count and read-out speed. An electronic shutter works by resetting pixels in the sensor using a sweep from one side to the other. Once reset the pixels start accumulating light. After the programmed exposure time the pixels are read by again sweeping from one side to the other.

      The weak point of this strategy is that one side has been exposed for longer than the other. The more pixels in the sensor, the larger the discrepancy. The ‘instant’ the photo was taken is actually different ‘instants’ for different parts of the sensor – this is a rolling shutter and why you get funky, warped or
      banded images with one. If the exposure time dominates the read-out time and there is little movement in the scene, you will not notice it. Fast shutter speeds and fast movement in the scene provoke the effect.

      So yes, if you are into silent night-time, landscape photography, it is technically possible on the A7r. For other use cases (unless Sony have sequestered some technological black magic in those cameras!) I would say there is zero chance it is possible with satisfactory results. Conversely, I doubt the silent mode will permit fast action (sport) on the A7s!

      • Guy, some interesting observations, thank you.

      • As I mentioned above, these are the problems with the electronic shutter:

        – Limited ISO range
        – Eliminates the possibility of using Auto ISO
        – Limited shutter speed choices
        – Images that display rolling shutter artifacts when shooting action

        No one has yet made a proper global electronic shutter. Until they do, these electronic (silent) shutters are likely to come with significant restrictions.

      • Guy Incognito, there is another type of electronic shutter called the global shutter that eliminates the jello effect and other motion artifacts of the rolling shutter. It captures the entire frame at one time, unfortunately only pro video cameras currently use it.

        • Mark, indeed! Electronic global shutters are an interesting technology. Paired with an EVF they would make for an entirely electronic (solid state) camera. As you and Robert note – global electronic shutters are currently unavailable in the consumer market. I believe RED has implemented a version? This technology will improve and trickle down to the consumer market!

47. I’m totally impressed with the IQ of the ISO 64000. The ISO 102,400 images are difficult to judge, because of their reduced size. But this really wets my appetite. Imagine having this as a second body next to my A7r! BTW I’d never wanno get rid of the r because of its fabulous detail and cropping power, but those ISO capabilities are stunning. Imagine buying those two bodies for less money than one Leica M! This would mean that I’d only use the A7s at high ISO, in dark circumstances. But it would totally make sense! Isn’t Sony a company to love!

48. Thanks for the first impressions. I like the last shot and most of the ones with the 55. It’s an amazing lens

49. The high ISO performance is impressive, to be sure, though I’d probably not want to shoot even this camera past about 25,000.

    The real questions I have all concern the silent (electronic shutter):

    – Does it limit the ISO range of the camera?
    – Does it eliminate the possibility of using Auto ISO?
    – Does it limit one’s shutter speed choices?
    – Do stills exhibit rolling shutter artifacts when shooting action?

    • I have the same exact questions.

50. “whet”, not “wet”

    • That was my first reaction as well but then it appealed to Steve’s sense of humor – maybe Steve wanted us to douse with a couple of drinks to “wet” our appetite

51. Steve

    Final photo : Led Zeplin would been happy to have on their live album.

    • I was thinking the same thing…that last photo reminds me of Led Zepellin in their heyday.

      Great shot…and as an aside, I think it may be underappreciated how great a photographer Steve seems to be…we often tend to focus on the gear reviews, but Steve can definitely produce amazing photos.

      • I second this comment. This guy has a brand new camera for less than 8 hours and this is what he produces!?!? WTF?!?!?

52. 3,200 seemed cleaner then my e-m5 at iso 200

53. The high ISO performance could make this a low light level shooters go to camera; the images look superb in b/w even at 102,400, but not so clean in colour.

    Steve, it would have made the exposures meaningful if you could have included the shutter speed. Then we could have got a true reflection of the light levels you were experiencing, and especially for hand holding. But no doubt you will do this in your full review.

54. Hi, can you stick that Leica apo on it?
    Thanks

55. the flare on that Mitakon is hideous

    • The Leica 50 Lux does a similar thing actually. I have a few shots from my Seal tour images that show this type of flare with the 50 Lux. I agree though, it is ugly but can be cool at times.

      • Ugly? Perhaps. But your last shot is proof that lens character can be exploited creatively in the right hands. I like it! Lots of energy in that last photo.

        Speaking of the 50 lux’, I am looking forward to the second part of your 50mm APO review. I sure hope you test that bad boy on the A7s. The combination of close to perfect colour correction and large photosites aught to make for exceptional colour and ‘smooth’ files? One can always dream….

        If you have the time and can get your hands on any wide M-mounts, some brief comments on those would be mighty appreciated! Surely the larger photosites aught to help.

        As always, thanks for the work you put in!

    • It would be hideous if it wasn’t framing the mic and mouth so nicely. Stellar photo.

56. I really think that I need this camera. . .. . . . . Those are incredible. . . . .

57. Great photos. Last one was the coolest!

58. the last photo is from another dimension

    • well said ! this singer must be the happiest man on planet Huff tonight 🙂

59. The noise is quite filmic and grainy. Pretty impressive.

    • I was thinking the same thing.

      • haha me three. i kinda dig it, especially with that 0.95

        • I noticed the same thing, but we don’t know if Steve did some post processing with it, like applied a film-like preset? But the camera impressed me.

          • Steve doesn’t apply pp on any of his photos before he puts up these reviews.. thats the actual noise you are seeing in the photos.. look at the photo of his gf near the end set at 80 000 iso and you can see the colored noise at that level.. then go back and see the black and whites . the noise does seem to have film like grain look to them. thats the great thing about this awesome camera 😉

    • Yeah – I really like the B/W high ISO shots. It looks like nice medium format grain, maybe Tri-X. The texture is beautiful.

60. First- incredible pictures

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